THE NEW TRANSSEXUALS

Harvey Katz

Entertainer & Educator

Photo: Amos Mac

George Petros: WE’RE TALKING TO HARVEY KATZ. ALRIGHT, HARVEY, YOU’RE IN ATHENS, GEORGIA, AREN’T YA?

Harvey Katz: I am. Yes.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE TOWN OF ATHENS —

Harvey Katz: I’ve lived here for twelve years and it’s about doubled in population since I’ve been here. It’s a Southern college town. A lot of music comes out of here, which is really cool. There’s always shows to go to every night. It’s turning into a really cool city. Since the economy has gone down, a lot more people are staying after they graduate. Like, I stayed after graduating from the University of Georgia.

WHAT DID YOU MAJOR IN?

Harvey Katz: P.E. I wasn’t much for college.

YOU GONNA USE THAT DEGREE?

Harvey Katz: Probably not. I originally went into it for the sex-ed aspect of it, but this is an abstinence-only state —

EXPLAIN TO OUR READERS WHAT THAT MEANS —

Harvey Katz: I don’t know if it’s still going on, but during the George Bush era, when I got my degree, if you received money from the government for your health-ed program, you could only teach abstinence as the only safe sex. Safer sex — you can’t mention condoms. You can’t teach anything about that. You just have to show them videos of what gonorrhea looks like. I taught at a high school that had the highest teen-pregnancy rate in Georgia. It was really a circus.

WHERE WERE YOU BORN?

Harvey Katz: I was born and raised in Miami, Florida. I lived there until I was nineteen, and then I moved to Georgia.

WHAT WAS YOUR LIFE LIKE DOWN IN MIAMI?

Harvey Katz: I’m Jewish. I spent a lot of time in synagogue and Hebrew school. I did a lot of martial arts and played a lot outside, and it was decent. I feel once I got into teenage-hood — and a Queer youth — it doesn’t even matter whether you’re in San Francisco or Miami or in Athens, Georgia. It’s just such a lonesome existence. I think that’s changing a lot now, but I feel like that was a large part of me wanting to get out of there — to find like-minded people —

I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT MIAMI MIGHT BE A GOOD PLACE FOR QUEER KIDS —

Harvey Katz: I think it was the Nineties — you know, like the Gay-Men era of Miami — and I was a teenager, too. I wasn’t really tapped into the community that I have better access to now.

WHAT HIGH SCHOOL DID YOU GO TO?

Harvey Katz: I went to Palmetto Senior High. It’s just a public school.

HOW WAS YOUR LIFE THERE?

Harvey Katz: I was kinda a weird kid. I smoked a lot of Weed. People would yell at me in the halls because I looked like a boy.

HOW DID YOU FEEL WHEN YOU HEARD THAT?

Harvey Katz: I was pretty enraged. Until my senior year, I was really an extremely quiet kid. I mean shy. In my senior year, my mom was diagnosed with cancer and my social life changed because what did I have to be afraid of — you know what I’m saying? It seemed like school was a lot less scary when you have stuff like that going on at home.

I’M SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR MOM.

Harvey Katz: That’s okay. It’s a long time ago now.

SO THAT WAS A TOUGH TIME FOR YOU —

Harvey Katz: Yeah, it really sucked — but you get through it. Everybody’s got their thing, I think. That was just my thing.

WHEN DID YOU REALIZE THAT SOMETHING WAS DIFFERENT, THAT SOMETHING WAS UP WITH YOU?

Harvey Katz: I was always very much an other. Whether it was gendered or not — growing up, I was so weird. I wasn’t much like my friends in a way that felt really tangible. My parents noticed. I had friends and I was a likeable person, but I was very much not like the other girls around me — and I don’t know if that’s a gender experience. I feel like I was very noticeably an other from the time I was very young. I came out as Queer at about thirteen to some friends. By seventeen, I was out to all my friends and family. My mom finally asked me. She said that her and my dad went to a therapist about it when I was thirteen. It came as a surprise to nobody.

I SEE.

Harvey Katz: Everybody was just twiddling their thumbs and waiting for me to say something. When I did, I was fine. Things didn’t even really change, as far as I remember. Except I changed a lot. Being able to vocalize it and give it a name, and being able to say, “This is why I feel so different.” It’s really hard to know if my memories of it are what I’ve made of it — like when I think back on it I’m like, “Oh, this is a horribly weird, sad kid with all this anger and resentment towards myself and other people.” Then I was like, “Is that really the reality?” Who knows? I had friends. I had places to go, I guess.

DID THESE THINGS LEAD TO PHYSICAL ALTERCATIONS WITH OTHER KIDS?

Harvey Katz: Rarely. I did all martial arts growing up. I was always fighting in martial-arts class. I had the capability to handle myself in any fight — and that sort of changes the way you go about fighting.

IT BOLSTERS YOUR CONFIDENCE —

Harvey Katz: It does. You know, I was attacked on a few different occasions. One guy — at a Gay bar I snuck into when I was sixteen — he grabbed a hold of me and wouldn’t let go. It was a frightening experience for me. It was fine — I got away.

WHAT MARTIAL ARTS DID YOU BRING TO BEAR UPON HIM?

Harvey Katz: I know Keishinkan, an Okinawan martial arts. It’s just a straight-up martial art.

THE OTHER KIDS MUST HAVE CAUGHT WIND OF THE FACT THAT YOU HAD THESE SKILLS AND IT PROBABLY GOT THEM TO LEAVE YOU ALONE —

Harvey Katz: I don’t know. I don’t know that anybody knew about it. Who knows? I don’t know. I’m sure a lot of people said stuff behind my back but in the end, we all say stuff behind people’s backs.

THAT’S TRUE.

Harvey Katz: I just try to keep that in perspective now. High school was a time when you have these periods of, like, “I think everyone’s talking about me — why does everybody hate me?” In the end, they’re just talking about themselves and hating themselves. They could care less about you.

ALRIGHT. NOW TELL US ABOUT YOUR MUSIC AND HOW THAT CAME ABOUT —

Harvey Katz: Well, my shows are usually at least fifty-to-sixty percent spoken word, and then the other part is music. None of the Hip Hop or music pieces started out very serious. They’re all just really light-handed, because sometimes my poetry is like — you know, poetry in itself is a really intense experience to listen to — a cappella words — I understand that can be a really heavy experience for people. So I’m like “Here’s some really fun stuff — here’s a chance to take a breather.”

YOU SAY IT’S FUN BUT IT SEEMS QUITE SERIOUS.

Harvey Katz: It’s a declaration of identity. I do most of my work at universities — I perform and do workshops. One person in our group had a lot of issues with the term “fagette.” They felt it was making light of their identity, and I was like, “It’s a first-person narrative, and if anything it’s just like a call-out. Our lives don’t have to be heavy and horrible.” Because we have these intense experiences doesn’t mean that our life has to be this intense ooze of these really heavy experiences. There are a lot of funny things that happen in your life when you’re a Trans person, you know?

I BET.

Harvey Katz: It’s okay. Let’s make light of the situation. It’s okay. I’m not making light of your experiences; I’m making light of my experience, and it’s okay to have a moment of breathing in this journey. It is really an intense experience. It’s time to get this right. Especially if you don’t take a medical route — you’re constantly validating your experience. At every interaction you’re like, “Please call me a ‘he’” or “Please call me a ‘she’”. It’s so hard. I don’t care anymore. It’s hard for me too. So, I get how it can make somebody feel assaulted at all times — you know?

I DO. TELL ME ABOUT THE VARIOUS DEGREES OF MEDICAL ROUTES PEOPLE TAKE —

Harvey Katz: I actually prefer not to talk about medical stuff, if that’s okay.

THAT’S FINE.

Harvey Katz: Only because it’s the most public part of a transition. It’s actually like the least — for me it’s the most minute. You know? So I tend to not talk about medical stuff.

COULD YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THE EMOTIONAL TRANSITIONS THAT YOU WENT THROUGH WHEN YOU BECAME YOUR PRESENT PERSONA?

Harvey Katz: Yeah, sure.

WERE HORMONES INVOLVED?

Harvey Katz: Yeah. I’ve been on hormones for about six years now.

TELL US ABOUT THE CHANGES IN YOUR LIFE —

Harvey Katz: I was filled with so much self-hatred and anxiety. I could barely even trust myself alone with myself. I really felt like I don’t want to take a shower because I didn’t want to see my naked body. I didn’t want other people to have access to this flesh that I hated. I think that took years to calm down, and then I ended up all these years later as somebody who actually feels extremely privileged to have taken this path. I really do. I’m a really proud Trans person. I feel like this is actually a pretty fucking cool experience. I may not enjoy every minute of it, but I enjoy a lot of the moments of it — and I wouldn’t choose to have had it any other way. I know that a lot of people say that about a lot of things. I do feel like this really fits me perfectly — to be a Trans person in a Trans body. Now, I know that this is just my personal experience. I can’t speak for other Trans people at all. Beginning medical transition, if you take hormones, you’re going through puberty and you’re going through menopause — it creates the perfect storm in your body and brain.

WOW —

Photo: Tim Gunther

Harvey Katz: This is a really bizarre thing that’s happening, and you have to counteract. You have to find a balancing act and a way to do it that’s healthy. If you don’t have a good support system around you, it’s even more difficult. It’s really cool how hormones — my body really took to them. I felt I was so calm, cool and collected through this whole experience —

YOU SAID YOU FELT KIND OF LUCKY. PART OF THIS PROCESS IS THE RESULT OF MEDICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCES SO THAT HORMONES CAN BE AVAILABLE. IN HUMAN HISTORY THIS IS A VERY NEW PHENOMENON.

Harvey Katz: Totally.

A COUPLE OF GENERATIONS AGO, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE SCIENCE FICTION TO EVEN IMAGINE SUCH A THING.

Harvey Katz: Absolutely.

SO, HATS OFF TO THOSE MEDICAL RESEARCHERS OUT THERE AND THOSE DOCTORS WHO MAKE THIS HAPPEN —

Harvey Katz: Yeah. When you’re in it, you’re like, “Why don’t you have more information?” Nobody knows what we’re going to look like in forty years, you know? We’re a little bit like lab rats at this point. We’re doing their experiments for them.

YOU ARE?

Harvey Katz: Yeah — there’s a lot of issues with access to proper patient care and stuff like that, but yes, in the end I’m extremely happy they were able to get the formula together.

DO YOU REMEMBER THE FIRST TIME YOU TOOK HORMONES?

Harvey Katz: Yeah. I had access to hormones for about a year before I actually initiated taking them. Once you start a medical transition, it’s no longer your personal experience. People are going to bear witness to the change in you. It’s going to become public. That, for me, was really difficult to get over. It becomes everyone else’s business. They get to visibly see it happening, and there are awkward periods — and I did it all on stage. I medically transitioned, and I was performing all the time. Sometimes I just felt like a cadaver laying on the slab. People just get to poke and prod —

I SEE.

Harvey Katz: That was the hardest thing, for me, with my decision —

THAT IT WOULD ALL OCCUR IN PUBLIC?

Harvey Katz: Uh-huh.

BUT YOU WERE ABLE TO HARNESS THAT PUBLIC-NESS OF IT. WAS IT GOOD MATERIAL FOR YOU TO WORK WITH ON STAGE?

Harvey Katz: Oh yeah, for sure. Especially when you travel and you have all these experiences with strangers. It was fine. In the end, I don’t come across a lot of haters at my shows. I generally come across a pretty willing-to-listen audience. When I come across anybody who’s got an issue or wants to take the conversation somewhere that I’m not okay with — I’ve been pretty good at humorously talking them down off the inappropriate-question bridge. I’m really fortunate — the people who come to my shows are pretty bad-ass people, and I like them a lot. I’ll continue to stick by them as long as they continue to stick by me.

BUT THEY ASK AN INAPPROPRIATE QUESTION NOW AND THEN?

Harvey Katz: Or like — not even inappropriate — I’ll play in a space where they want to start heckling. I played this sports bar, and it was a really awkward evening — and I ended up going back to that place because I enjoyed how awfully awkward it was. I like to deflect the anger. Throw a joke in — “You think you’re upset? Speak to my parents —”

EVEN I LAUGHED. SO YOU’RE A COMEDIAN —

Harvey Katz: It’s not anything I assume to be, but if it gets people to enjoy it then I’m into it.

A COMEDIAN AND A RAPPER — THAT’S A GOOD COMBO.

Harvey Katz: Why not?

I’D LIKE TO ASK YOU ABOUT PEOPLE YOU’VE DATED AND STUFF LIKE THAT —

Harvey Katz: I dated a few women in high school.

ANY GUYS?

Harvey Katz: The last boyfriend that I had, I was like sixteen and I had known him since I was five years old. I have a scar above my lip from when we played He-Man when I was five, and I fell down. I dated him for like six months. I told him on the first date that I was Gay and he was like, “Yeah — can’t say I haven’t thought of it myself —” We just hung out and made both our parents really pleased.

DID YOU DATE GIRLS WHO WENT TO YOUR SCHOOL?

Harvey Katz: Yeah.

WAS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU KEPT ON THE SLY, OR WERE YOU WALKING DOWN THE HALL HOLDING HANDS?

Harvey Katz: In my senior year I was pretty righteous about it. It’s like, “Riot Grrrl —” I didn’t want to feel like I had to hide it — I’d walk her to class, and I remember one time a teacher called me a boy when I walked into class, and the whole class just roared with laughter.

WHAT DID YOU DO?

Harvey Katz: I was mortified. I think I left school. It was not hard to convince me to skip school. It was the catalyst I needed that day to get out of there.

DOES A SHITTY REMARK BY A TEACHER CONSTITUTE BULLYING?

Harvey Katz: At this point, yeah. Like a teacher doing that — first of all, she thought I was a dude. It wasn’t hard to think that about me — and who knows? After all the kids started laughing, they could have had a whole talk about it in the class. I doubt they did —

IT WAS PROBABLY NOT A LEARNING MOMENT.

Harvey Katz: All the kids laughing was something that definitely stuck with me.

SO THEN YOU MOVED TO ATHENS —

Harvey Katz: Yeah.

WHO’D YOU START DATING THERE?

Harvey Katz: I dated women and Trans men. I’ve gone on the occasional date with non-Trans men. It’s really hard for me to find non-Trans men who are into dating me, in any way that doesn’t feel like fetishistic. It’s really important to me that I feel like a whole person going on a date with somebody, and I don’t feel like a story that somebody needs to fulfill in their life. They go tell their friends about this really bizarre date they went on — I don’t feel like a bizarre person. I’ve had some bizarre experiences — but haven’t we all? And so, when that becomes the situation, it’s a real turn-off for me.

SO, YOU’RE IN ATHENS BUT YOU TRAVEL AROUND A LOT DOING YOUR SPOKEN WORD, AS AN EDUCATOR — IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE?

Harvey Katz: Infotainment.

AN INFOTAINMENT SPECIALIST, HUH?

Harvey Katz: Yeah.

DO YOU FIND YOURSELF PREACHING TO THE CHOIR?

Harvey Katz: You know, it depends. I always set up the workshop where it’s like, “Well, let me find out how everybody is —” Then we can have a more intricate discussion, like a one-on-one. We talk about issues at the school. We troubleshoot things that folks can do. Sometimes I’m like, “Here’s another poem about me.” That’s the best I can do — and hope that somebody out there catches something that feels right to them and makes them feel better or makes them feel validated or makes them feel like their experiences have been justified and borne witness to. I can perform to very like-minded people, and I hope it doesn’t feel trite or boring.

SO THESE AREN’T FORUMS FOR DEBATE —

Harvey Katz: No.

WHAT ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF THINGS THAT ARE ON KIDS’ MINDS THESE DAYS?

Harvey Katz: Well, Trans people are more likely to be assaulted than any other community. There’s a lot of issues surrounding safety on campus. There’s a lot of issues surrounding paperwork —

PAPERWORK?

Harvey Katz: Because it’s like you come into a class — I didn’t legally change my name until last year. So legally, I didn’t have a name that swung both ways. My old name is Elizabeth. And so, paperwork-wise, when you come into class, you’ve already come out in a way that you didn’t want to or mean to. Before your teacher gets to know you, they know you as a Trans person.

I SEE.

Harvey Katz: Because changing your name is expensive — a pain in the ass — and it may be something you don’t want to do. There’s issues around housing. It’s a really tricky issue, like dorm life — bathroom use, which hall —

THESE ARE TOUGH QUESTIONS, AREN’T THEY?

Harvey Katz: They are. They really are. Often what they’ll do — if you’re lucky enough to have a school that will work with you — they’ll put you in a single where you don’t have a roommate — but then you’re not getting the dorm experience. I would have been happy to have that experience — a single room versus my jail cell. So there’s issues around that — housing and paperwork and campus safety —

SAFETY AND SECURITY — THAT’S A PROBLEM BEYOND COLLEGE. MANY TRANSGENDERED FOLKS GET KILLED EVERY YEAR —

Harvey Katz: People tend to murder mostly Trans women of color — and the assaults are extremely violent —

THESE ARE OFTEN SITUATIONS WHERE A STRAIGHT MALE PICKS UP A TRANSGENDERED GAL AND THEN COMES TO DISCOVER THAT THINGS AREN’T AS HE THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO BE —

Harvey Katz: Right.

WOULD IT BE BEST TO TELL PEOPLE UP FRONT WHAT’S GOING ON WITH ONESELF? IS THAT THE WAY TO DIFFUSE A BAD SITUATION?

Harvey Katz: I mean, no. I’m always like, “Make sure that your safety officers know that there are Trans people on campus.” You don’t have to pin-point them out — it’s a person’s right to say “I’m Trans” or not. It doesn’t affect the other person at all. Unless you’re going to have sex with the person, there’s no reason for anyone to know any of your business. For a campus, they need to have the word out that assaults on Trans people are going to be handled extremely seriously, and that this is a campus that supports and protects its Trans population.

ALRIGHT. NOW, ABOUT YOUR POETRY — WHAT DO YOU WRITE POETRY ABOUT?

Harvey Katz: It’s mostly just the human experience. It’s whatever comes out of my mouth. Some of them are fun poems — a lot of Pop Culture references. I recently wrote a new poem called When I Was Fourteen I Was Closer To Fun. Anyway, because I publicly transitioned in this city, I call myself the Trans-pa of Athens, Georgia.

HOW DO YOU CLOSE YOUR SHOW?

Harvey Katz: I close with Fagette — because it’s what people came to see.

YOU MEAN THE SONG, RIGHT?

Harvey Katz: Totally — but at the end I’m just like, “Thanks for coming out, be good to yourself today.” I just feel like our community needs to be reminded to be gentle with yourself.

BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF — THERE’S A GOOD CLOSER.

Harvey Katz: A very good one. ~